On November 4th United States citizens not only voted for the next president of our country, but also on state representatives, judges as well as ammendments. One of those ammendments, in particular, has now become one of the most expensive social issues in our history as defenders on both sides of the issue rallied for support.
Florida Ammendment 2 stated: "This amendment protects marriage as the legal union of only one man and one woman as husband and wife and provides that no other legal union that is treated as marriage or the substantial equivalent thereof shall be valid or recognized."
Two existing Florida statutes already prohibited same-sex marriage:
Florida Statute 741.212(1) defines marriage as the legal union between one man and one woman and provides that the term "spouse" applies only to a member of such union (FL. Stat. 741.212(1),(3)).
Florida also adopted a Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) in 1997 which was codified as Florida Statute 741.212. The amendment as written includes a clause prohibiting judges from overturning the law. This is a response to what happened in Massachusetts, where a judge overturned that state's law banning same-sex marriage.
Amendment 2 was approved on election day with 62.1% of the vote. Voters in 26 states other states have also passed constitutional amendments prohibiting same-sex marriage. Three others states including Florida, Arizona (Proposition 102)and California (Proposition 8) proposed these amendments on the November ballot. And in Arkansas voters passed by 57% an ammendment making it illegal for any individual cohabiting outside of a valid marriage to adopt or provide foster care to children. (In other words if you are not married you can not adopt or provide foster care children.) This ammendment was passed in an effort to prohibit same sex couples from adopting or providing foster care but as a result also affects heterosexual couples as well as single adults who want to parent.
What makes the California ammendment interesting is that on September 2nd 2005 California Senate approved bill #19 21-15 approving same-sex marriage and on September 6, the California State Assembly followed suit with a vote of 41-35, making California's legislature the first in the nation to approve a same-sex marriage bill without court pressure.
California continues to allow domestic-partner registration, a right similar to civil unions found in other states which grants "same-sex couples all state-level rights and obligations of marriage — in areas such as inheritance, income tax, insurance and hospital visitation" but does not apply to "federal-level rights of marriage that cannot be granted by states".
In Florida supporters of Ammendment 2 argued that the amendment would protect children by ensuring that only the form of marriage between a man and a woman would ever be celebrated in Florida, that the Florida statute that already provides for a single form of marriage could be overturned by a court on constitutional grounds if this ammendement was not passed and that if the amendment fails, school children could be indoctrinated in the gay lifestyle.
Opponents argue that health care and pension benefit plans which cover unmarried couples, even heterosexual older couples, living together and which are now legally valid may be adversely affected. In addition they argue that Article I of the Florida Constitution, known as the Declaration of Rights, establishes rights, but this amendment would instead limit the right to marry. There are already other Florida Laws that expressly prohibit homosexual unions, so this amendments purpose is much larger than that and if passed will be used to restrict all relationships that are not a legal marriage under Florida's Statutes. Opponents also say that elderly people in the state who, after being widowed, have subsequently chosen a domestic partnership in order to retain certain benefits, will be adversely impacted by the measure.
In her blog, TheDailyBeast.com, Melissa Etheridge, who exchanged vows with her longtime partner in a 2003 ceremony, declared she wouldn't pay her taxes because she argues that her marriage with Tammy Lynn Michaels is no longer recognized as such under Prop 8, therefore, “she and I are not allowed the same right under the state constitution as any other citizen. Okay, so I am taking that to mean I do not have to pay my state taxes because I am not a full citizen...I mean that would just be wrong, to make someone pay taxes and not give them the same rights, sounds sort of like that taxation without representation thing from the history books,” Melissa adds that she and other gay citizens “will not rest until we have the full rights of any other citizen. It is that simple, no fearful vote will ever stop us, that is not the American way. Come to think of it, I should get a federal tax break too...”
Let me "wallow in complexity" for a little.
Is this a moral argument or a civil rights argument? Was our country not founded on the premise that all people are created equal therefore we are all entitled to equal rights and equal opportunities? Where does the definition of marriage come from? The church? And if so what about seperation of church and state? Would a word change suffice to grant all individual equal rights such as using "civil unions" or "domestic partnership" rather than "marriage"? The people of this country have fought long and hard over the years to enforce and protect our civil rights, so why is this issue any different from womens rights, the right to vote, desegregation? The Florida ammendment clearly states "no other union" will be recognized therefore that couple is not entitled to the same rights as those who get "married". What are the unintended consequences of these laws, particularly the Arkansas law that claims you are unfit to raise a child unless you are married? What evidence exists that "married" couples provide a safer, more secure, happier home for children? What happens when those couples get divorced? How different are divorce's raising children as single parents from a woman or man who adopts a child a single parent? I'm left with so many questions and a need for answers. What are your thoughts?
44 comments:
This is definitely a good topic if you want people to wake up and fire up at 9:30 in the morning.
haha i agree. seriously.. 9:47am
One step foward for race, five steps back for gays.
Obama wins! How great is that? In a country where a half black man would have been enslaved,segregated and killed just for the color of his skin decades ago, that same man is now our leader. This is a great time for humans in the U.S, right? I mean we have elected our first "black" or half black President, it is something that has never occurred before. We've seen it all! Oprah and Jesse Jackson crying. However, in a time of celebration and equality there is still hate and segregation.
Amendment 2 in Florida passes, Amendment 8 in California passes, the anti-gay Amendment in Arizona passes and the Unmarried Couple Adoption Ban in Arkansas also passes. All of these bans/amendments promote segregation and hate. They simply state,"you are not worthy of having the same rights as everyone else simply because of who you love." Keith Olberman stated in his special comment section of his show this week, that if we did not redefine marriage previously, blacks would not be able to marry whites and blacks were not able to marry other blacks because they were slaves. Meaning the parents of the next President of the United States would not have been able to get married in all 50 states. For the people who argue that "redefining marriage" should not be done, they obviously do not know that by redefining marriage we grow as a country and as people.
It is quite ironic that this week our blog topic is about amendment 2, considering I had quite a discussion about this amendment with a fellow classmate last week, I'll call her "Jane". Jane argued that the amendment does not take away rights. She is right, technically, I mean how could you take something away before it is given to you.No rights=nothing to take. But this Amendment does make it impossible for gays/lesbians to marry, no judge can overturn previous bans. Jane also mentioned that she would "want to marry a man and have kids and she does not want her kids growing up with a certain idea." This is where I stopped listening because it was at that moment when I realized how ignorant she really was. How does you marrying a man and having kids affect me in any way? How does me marrying a woman that I love affect you? God forbid your children see "gay people" in love.They might sprinkle some rainbow rice from their gay wedding and make all the children in the world gay.Obviously, that is never going to happen because, 1.there is no magical gay rice and 2.because being gay is not a choice. Why would anyone choose to have a harder life? People that don't even know me hate me, my brother thinks I'm going to hell, the country I live in thinks I am not worthy of having the same rights as everyone else. Once people hear the word "lesbian" they automatically judge me. Whether they think that I sleep around, have some kind of flannel clothing, hate men,love Katy Perry or that I want every girl simply because they have a vagina. It doesn't work like that, I've only loved and been with one girl and that situation was heart-breaking enough for me.
Not only is being gay hard but finding someone who loves you and that you love back is truly a mission. It is hard for straight people but for gay/lesbians it is 90% harder. There are so many shades of grey and complicated situations.But marriage is uncomplicated because it is about two people coming together to make a commitment to spend the rest of their lives with one another because they are in love. That is what marriage is, it is not about a man and a woman.It's about love and if anyone is lucky enough to find it, then they should be entitled to embrace it. We should be spreading love and not hate.How would God respond to these laws? If he really does exist, if he really did "create" me then he created me this way for a reason. Was it to suffer? Possibly, but I think it was to show that we are not monsters or that we have secret agendas at schools. It was to show that we will fight for the same rights as everyone else. The equality of races may have been reached for now but the gay equality is just beginning to fight.
This isn't about gay clichés in San Francisco advertising homosexuality through rainbows and gay parades anymore.
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In a country where people have the audacity to say they sponsor equality and separation of Church and State, it would be common sense that issues like homosexuality would be long forgotten as things of the past. Unfortunately, that did not occur, and it is all because people can’t leave their own lives out of the picture and allow others to do whatever they please with theirs. But the truth is, despite the victory us "liberals" won with Obama, I really feel the election came short of bringing a change I deem very important. This change involves the denial of social rights every citizen is guaranteed upon birth, and it is ridiculous that despite the Civil War Movement, despite the Feminist Movement, despite the countless movements that came and are yet to come, we are still selfish enough to deny people the right to formalize the love they feel for their significant other simply because they are gay.
We might as well still be believing the sun revolves around a flat planet earth, because believing the world revolves around our bellybuttons is far worse than that could have ever been. America is running a modern age Crusade; This struggle is as much overseas as it is at home, because as we entitle ourselves as "God's Chosen Ones" to establish our preferred doctrine in countries like Iraq, we establish our beliefs and morals as the proper conductors of everyday life for all individuals in such a diverse nation like The United States of America.
As far as I knew, the Constitution said that all men were created equal, that all men are entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Us failing to be open-minded towards other people not only makes the Constitution the biggest fraud since 1787, but it also makes our values, the sanctity of marriage, and our credibility as people some of the biggest frauds as well.
What I'm saying might seem bold and out of line, but tell me how we can trust a document that forged a pathway to make Black people 3/5th's of a person, that denied women the right to vote until the elections of 1920, that established an electoral college because the elite thought men of lower socioeconomic status were not smart enough to make decisions for themselves? When it comes to religion, spiritual faith could be a beautiful thing when taken seriously and not literally, but even historians tell us that this religion thing, regardless of what religion it is, was created to perpetually scare and control the masses
But this is more complex than religion and morality, because taking people's rights away makes this gay thing a civil rights issue. This does not deal only with what people want to do in the bedroom and how they want to live at home, but it deals with many other issues as well. By denying people the right to marriage, we're saying that their whole life means nothing more than a worthless relationship never acknowledged as equal to ours. Any gay person whose partner dies after a long time together is usually stripped of anything they made in unison. Only 19 states allow homosexuals to adopt children. As of now, virtually no state allows homosexuals to provide their only significant other with the health care every person deserves. If a law was made to deny all of these rights to people like us, we would freak, because as soon as things start to personally affect us, is that we stop taking things lightly.
Gays and lesbians are as normal as heterosexuals are. Them being gay doesn't make them any more promiscuous, less faithful, less educated, less fair, or less of a person than anyone else. Why 70% of black people voted against a people chained to silence, when they were chained for 450 years in this country themselves, is more than baffling to me. Why we fail to let people do what they feel is best for them when it doesn't concern us, is even more astonishing. If we as a people, are ignorant and selfish enough to say that homosexuals have no right to marry, that homosexuals cannot adopt children, that homosexuals can't be open if they are fighting for our country, and so much more, then we shouldn't give ourselves the title of a country with "liberty and justice for all", when we don't provide our constituents with those rights and when we haven't rightfully earned it.
Although the segregation of races are becoming better, I would agree with both Belinda and Soraya that the issue about gays is a huge impact to our society.
I believe in separation of Church and State, but the way Soraya put it, is not all the way correct. The definition and the way I learned what Separation of Church and State is that the state doesn't interfere with the rules of religion. The issue about gays are more contradicting the equality rights.
I lean more to the marriage between a man and woman. Change may not always be a good thing. For example, kids who live in a rough neighborhood and is unfortunate make the decision to join a gang. It is a dramatic change to their life, not exactly a good one. You make money, but not a steady income. It relates to gays getting married to each other. Let's use our imagination. What happens if it does happen? Amendment 2 changes to marriages to all races and sexes. Changes with the birth rates, and how will the economy look to other third world countries, and the protests by religions will occur. It's equality to everyone if gays get to marry, but what about the crimes done to gays and lesbians? How will people who are conservative react to something that may not seem right to them? Will religions retire? Will the birth rates decrease rapidly? Will the United States be taken seriously, when other countries don't abide by the same democracy we have? Everybody is different in a variety of ways and everyone thinking is diverse. If this Amendment changes, how is everything going to change? For the good or horribly wrong? Do we need to take that chance?
I believe that the issue on gays in society has, like everyone before me states, a huge impact in our society. I do think that segregation is indeed getting BETTER, I mean we DO have a black president elect. I think we are more open-minded today than we ever were. I just don’t agree with gay marriage.
To understand my opinion, I have to start with the history of marriage itself. Marriage was born in the CHURCH. Marriage is a sanctity that is “supposed” to be shared by a MAN and a WOMAN. And, being a proud Christian, I have a problem understanding why ANYONE would want to re-define that definition.
As the previous members stated that the passing of the amendment was “unconstitutional” and it does not allow gays to become “full citizens”. I think this isnt true. You don’t have to be married to become a citizen and earn specific rights in the United States. These attacks make me think gays really do want to marginalized. Why would they come up with these ideas if no one has directly told them we don’t want them to become “full citizens”? We just want to preserve our marriages.
Although I don’t care about what gay and lesbian couples do with their own lives, I DO care when it becomes the issue of chaging my definition of marriage. Two women could be happy and live together, if they so chose to. But, changing the definition of marriage changes our civilization as a whole. Marriage is something that is being exploited by everyone right now. Marriage isnt supposed to be treated in this way. Marriage is beautiful . Marriage is innocent. And, as a member of the new generation, I believe I have seen our fathers and mothers struggle in the fight to preserve our innocence. Don’t us girls always dream about our fantasy weddings with our handsome groom? Why would we want that to be taken and corrupted by activists who suggest otherwise?
In a different light, wouldn’t gay marriage open the door for any type of marriage? Don’t you think that if we alter marriage for one group in society, we will have to do it for every group? Ultimately these actions strip the word and institution of its value comepletely. In this video, pro-amendment 2 activists realize we must draw the line somewhere, before the word marriage is abused!
http://www.youtube.com/v/DofQsB0f1lM&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&fs=1
To end my opinion, I give you words from the bible:
“For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.” (Genesis 2:24)
Directly quoted from the Constitution:
"... but no religious Test ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States..."
"... Congress shall not make any law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ..."
In other words, sheena, the state does not interfere with any rules of religion, but neither does religion have the ability (or should) affect the rules of the state.
Therefore, religion should not inflict with ANY LAWS made in the United States, and neither shall "congress not make any law respecting the establishment of religion."
It seems pretty simple to understand, and I believe the way you put it is incorrect, because it goes both ways.
All men/women/children are equal....or are we? This is a burning question that desires to be extinguished by this direct answer: not quite! In the "United" States of America, are we really united as a people? Have we forgotten that not every individual is the same and we all differ in race, ethnicity, ideas, thoughts, views, perspectives, personalities, gender and even sexual orientation! Have we forgotten?
By law, marriage is defined as the union of one man and one woman. Today, homosexuals wish to have the same rights to marriage and adoption, as do heterosexual married couples. Although I personally do not agree with homosexuality, the fact is, homosexuals exist and they are people just like you and me, and they deserve rights, as any decent law-abiding, tax-paying citizen. What makes them so different from us? They serve in government capacities, compete in sports, attend school for an education, seek love, happiness and success, etc. They are exactly like you and I: human. The only difference is their sexual preference. Obama's campaign was one based on Change. The question is: are we ready for change? Are we ready to truly be a nation where freedom is as accessible as the air we breathe; where it is possible to live without fear, be yourself and be happy with no worry of discrimination or prejudice. Are we ready to be united, as a people who share the common goal of prosperity, knowledge and the will to succeed, while lending a hand to our fellow brother/sister? Are we ready to accept the fact that just because someone may be different, it does not make them any less human? Are we ready?
The time has come for us to rid ourselves of the double standard that exists. Why is it that we are targeting the homosexuals, who have done nothing but follow their own heart? They are law-abiding citizens who seek the rights that heterosexual couples possess and they have every right to their rights. Why are we denying them the right to be married and to be happy, simply because they are different? Yet, we condone children watching R-rated movies and allow the porn industry to thrive where women are degraded and permit those guilty of murder to walk free. Its time to eradicate this double standard.
Personally, I used to be anti-gay. I must say that it was due to ignorance and lack of knowledge. My eyes were opened when I became friends with a guy who was openly gay. At first it seemed awkward, but as I got to know him, I realized that he was not gay by choice and that he could care less what persons thought about him. I admired his courage and soon realized that we had a lot in common, only we differ in sexual orientation. To this day, he is a good friend of mine that I can trust and count on.
Belinda claimed, "All of these bans/amendments promote segregation and hate. They simply state, "you are not worthy of having the same rights as everyone else simply because of who you love." Her statement highlights the inequality and discrimination that exists in America and was declared boldly with the passing of Amendment 2. Its truly time for us to wake up and smell the coffee and realize the true meaning of the words: freedom, equality, united and Change!
Jarrod
Some people are born with mental disorders, some people are born with disabilities, some people are born with incurable diseases, no one is born gay, that is a lifestyle people choose for themselves. And here we our in the midst of two wars and the worse financial crisis since the Great Depression, In a time that we should be united, we are divided. Divided over a social issue that is minute in importance considering the great challenges of our time. The true fabric of Democracy is woven when government adheres to the will of the people, on November 4th the American people spoke loudly and forcefully to say no to gay marriages. It was a process that was both fair and just and had the votes went the other way, you would not hear any backlash from the gay community. Florida Constitution defines marriage as between one man and one woman and for many states throughout the U.S the language reads the same. That should not be redefined, in almost every state they allow same- sex couples to be recognized as a civil union or domestic partners which virtually allots the same rights as a married couple, so what is the problem. At some point the line must drawn to preserve the sacredness of marriage, just because two people are in love does not mean they should be married under law at least, If a Father loved his daughter in a intimate way should they be able to be married, If A 40 year old man was in love with a 13 year old girl should they be able to get married, they answer is no and for same sex couples the answer is no. I don't look down on people who chooses to live alternative lifestyles , but I do have a fundamental disagreement when it comes to marriage. Gays use the Constitution to argue the separation of church and state when it comes to the moral issues of marriage, the truth is marriage was created on the premise of religious faith, so how do you separate the two. In the beginning God created Adam and Eve. God did not make anyone gay, that was a path of choice, In the eyes of God men and women were to be married so they could multiple and be fruitful and if we allow marriage to be redefined then we are sabotaging the very premise on which it was established. In although many gay's may refuse to believe that allowing same-sex marriage would only further encourage and spread gay lifestyles throughout the nation,it is true. Imagine if a gay married couple were able to adopt children, those children will more than likely chose to live the same lifestyle because they were never given a chance, at the early stages of life children are influenced by what they see most. It will also make it harder for heterosexual couples to raise their kids because it may be harder for their children to distinguish what is right from wrong when it comes to the lifestyles they will chose to live in life.
It's funny how gay's talk about their injustice in this country and how they have been deprived of so much, the truth is they have every right as any other American. America may not be perfect but there is no doubt that we are one of the most tolerant countries on earth.
I think it's important in order to establish a strong argument about this issue, to define marriage. What is it? Where does that definition come from? When was it established? Who created that definition?
How important is it to consider context? We are in a different time then we were 100 years ago where marriage meant something different. If we look at the course of history, hasn't marriage always been a tool utilized in gaining some right or privilege? For example, in the 18th century marriage was for socio economic status, most marriages were arranged for the family to acquire some sort of rank or prestige and even political vantage. We see this very explicitly in the recent movie "The other Boleyn girl".
Today we see people get married for legal status so that one can acquire their residency, so they won't get deported, we see young couples forced into marriage by their parents because a teenager got pregnant and the family doesn't want to have a bad reputation. Couples get married for tax purposes, for health insurance purposes, etc. etc. And let's not forget the drunk couples who run off to Vegas to get married.
Thus, this brings us back to question, what is marriage? And if we are to use the definition or two people loving each other till death do them part, so on and so forth, which is where we get the argument that we must "preserve the sanctity of marriage", then should we not be questioning and even perhaps disallowing individuals from getting married if they are doing it for purposes such as legal residency?
Now if we disregard that part of the conversation and we focus our attentions solely on marriage as an act between a man and a woman, should we not then be forced to question: What is a man? and What is a woman? Is this determined by your biology or by something more than that?
Let's also keep in mind that we are not attempting to argue with each other or offend each other, we are looking for answers and asking questions, making claims and providing evidence. Opinions will not suffice here in this argument. You have to step it up, and in addition, let's be careful with our tone and style. Since this is an online dialogue words can be misinterpreted. So let's pay extra attention to our tone.
Many people believe that marriages started within the Catholic Church. I've read in a couple of history books (both in and out of school) that say the idea of marriage dates back to before the birth of Christ, meaning that Christianity continued the tradition. Here is something similar to what I am talking about:
"In western society some aspects of modern family relationships and composition can be traced to ancient Mesopotamia and Babylonia. Ideas such as the wedding, marriage, and divorce began developing then. Through innumerable legal documents from the Sumerian to the Seleucid period, we see the individual as father, son, brother, or husband. The root of these relationships started with a proposal, followed by the marriage contract, and ending with the wedding."
Now, there are many historians that agree that this tradition started way before Christianity established an influence as official faith and form of law. Aside from that, we also have to acknowledge, however, that the United States has two forms of marriage: Religious and civil. In other words, marriage is an institution in which interpersonal relationships (usually intimate and sexual) are acknowledged by the state, by religious authority, or both. It is often viewed as a contract. Civil marriage is the legal concept of marriage as a governmental institution, in accordance with marriage laws of the jurisdiction.
So, in a country where 78% of its constituents describe themselves Christian, and that 78% of the people is divided into different branches of the religion, how do we coordinate all of their beliefs into one law that pleases them all? What about the 22% of the people that are not of Christian faith? If there are estimated to be 305,706,000 "legal" people in America in 2008, what about those 22% (67,255,300 people) are being left out. This is, therefore, not a minute issue. Why are we excluding all those people? What moral or religious right do we have to do so? If they are not allowed to change the Christian definition of marriage, why are we changing THEIR definition of marriage?
We have to take into consideration, that just because the majority of the people in America think in accordance to Christianity, doesn't mean that way is correct and fair for everyone.
What about Jews, and Muslims and people that have no religious affiliation at all? Either way, "re-defining" the definition of marriage does not re-define the Christian view of marriage, or the Muslim take on marriage, or any other take on marriage. Allowing a civil form of marriage, simply allows the union of two people to be acknowledged under the government.
We have to understand that gay people are also people. That they are born with the rights every man was "given" in equal opportunity. Being gay does not go hand in hand with promiscuity, or immorality, or unfairness. Why should we limit someones happiness because we don't agree. Acknowledging gay marriages does not forge a path way for people to "do whatever they want" with the values of society.
Remember:
"One mans pain is the next mans pleasure, one mans trash is the next mans treasure, some say infinity the next say forever."
On another note:
If I ever sounded rude, I am deeply sorry. My intentions were not to offend or attack anyone else, so if I did so, I sincerely apologize.
- Soraya
Ronald claims that being gay is a chosen lifestyle. I used to feel this way, but I have a differnet view on it now. If someone was born straight, why would they intentionally choose to be a homosexual and to be subject to all the discrimination that they face? I feel strongly that someone would lean toward homosexuality as a result of unbalanced hormones or they may be influenced into the behavior as a result of being molested and taken advantage of. That explains why so many people are "closet gays" and try to hide the fact that they prefer relations with the same sex. If it were truly a choice they made, wouldn't they boldly declare it without fear? Whenever you see someone come out and declare publicly that they are gay, they always simply say, "I'm gay". You never hear them claim that they "decided" to be gay. Nevertheless, there are those homosexuals who are open about it and could care less what people think about them, because they follow their heart and are truly happy with their lifestyle.
Moreover, Ronald used examples such as a Father marrying his daugther and an older man marrying a teenager. I can see the point he is trying to make, however, this argument is flawed. You cannot compare a father and his daughter to a homosexual couple that are not related by blood, but seek to marry. There is a hint of personal bias against homosexuality, more formally known as homophobia. I can relate because I used to be homophobic. But now I am more enlightened and I have learned to accept persons for who they are, regardless of differnces that may exist. Homosexuals today probably feel the same way that blacks felt yesterday. In essence, just because of skin color, or in this case, because of sexual orientation, one is not seen as being equal to those that differ. You must also analyze the fact that many straight couples have children that turn out gay and gay couples raise children that turn out straight.
In conclusion, I say again that I personally do not agree with the homosexual lifestyle, but who am I to judge and look down on others that choose a same-sex partner. We all have unique and differing outlooks on life. If we are to be truly called "equal" and "united", its time we learn to accept others regardless of differences and realize that even a rose bush will grow in the same garden as a sunflower.
Jarrod
Basically Belinda and Soraya have both stated their argument and I am severely disappointed. I cannot comprehend the emotion and the excellent writing they have laid out about such an issue.
I am green with envy!
I agree 100 % with both girls arguments.
I am one of those “straight people” Belinda speaks of, and I must agree it is very difficult to hunt for love in our present world, but now I consider my struggle as nothing more then searching for a pen in an office. I have never heard of this as reason supporting the argument of gay and lesbians fighting towards their freedom, but it works! It appeals to pathos incredibly and thus going one step ahead of intriguing her audience.
Sorayas writing seems to me more like she was using a style of language with bigger vocabulary and more facts and thus appealing to a different audience. Although I prefer Belinda’s writing, Soraya made as strong of an argument as Belinda. For the reason that Soraya added numbers and statistic in her writing, she supported her appeal to logos, while Belinda appealed to ethos because she is a person that once fell in love with another girl and understands the struggle better then most straight individuals.
Some points made by Belinda that caught my attention and were interesting to read were:
* “Whether they think that I sleep around, have some kind of flannel clothing, hate men, love Katy Perry or that I want every girl simply because they have a vagina.”
* “Not only is being gay hard but finding someone who loves you and that you love back is truly a mission. It is hard for straight people but for gay/lesbians it is 90% harder.”
* “If he really does exist, if he really did "create" me then he created me this way for a reason. Was it to suffer? Possibly, but I think it was to show that we are not monsters or that we have secret agendas at schools.”
Some points made by Soraya that I absolutely agree with are:
* "But this is more complex than religion and morality, because taking people's rights away makes this gay thing a civil rights issue"
* "Any gay person whose partner dies after a long time together is usually stripped of anything they made in unison. Only 19 states allow homosexuals to adopt children. As of now, virtually no state allows homosexuals to provide their only significant other with the health care every person deserves."
* "Why 70% of black people voted against a people chained to silence, when they were chained for 450 years in this country themselves, is more than baffling to me. Why we fail to let people do what they feel is best for them when it doesn't concern us, is even more astonishing."
Very good points made by both girls and I applaud their amazing writing!
So it looks like Dr. Phil finally joined in on the bandwagon of this conversation! LOL! He must have been reading our blog...
LOL... The dr. phil totally went over my head there.
As a Catholic, I firmly believe in the definition of marriage by the church as a sacred bond between a man and a woman. However, should government listen to the church, or should there be a separation between church and state? It is very true that we were all created equal and living in the United States means that we are all entitled to equal rights and responsibilities. Yet, should this issue be looked at from a moral standpoint, or from a legal one?! I feel torn when looking for the answer, because as much as I want to stick to morals, I truly do not believe it's not fair to deny someone rights just because they are gay. I totally agree with Belinda that God creates everyone for a reason. Obviously there is a reason he created gays and I feel that there is nothing wrong with that! They are people just like everyone else. Some of the gays I know, are the nicest people i've ever met. Therefore I feel that the church can have some jurisdiction morally, but they should not have a say legally... that job lies in the hands of the government, and somehow there needs to be a compromise! Not to mention, there are numerous unintended effects of this new law. Old couples, widows and even single heterosexual- unmarried couples are being effected. This law is bringing up new issues with adoption and foster care.... something needs to be done to stop this!!!!
I completely agree with Soraya when she said, "As far as I knew, the Constitution said that all men were created equal, that all men are entitled to the pursuit of happiness. Us failing to be open-minded towards other people not only makes the Constitution the biggest fraud since 1787, but it also makes our values, the sanctity of marriage, and our credibility as people some of the biggest frauds as well." She also brought up a question that seriously got me thinking. "Will religions retire?" In my opinion, religions should never retire. They have been around since the beggining of time and whether they are true or not, they are established sets of claims that people believe and cherish. For some people, If gay marriages are allowed, they will be astonished and perturbed however, I don't think they would go to the extreme to abandon their religion. If so did they ever even have a strong faith to begin with? As a result, I find it nearly impossible for religion to retire as a whole.
However there needs to be a way to fix this problem that incompases church and state, a compromise so to speak. A solution?????? I feel that gays and lesbians in society should not be able to obtain a "marriage," however we should come up with a new word for homosexual couples that does not interfere with Catholic doctrine. For example, we could possibly call it "a partnership" that way they can still obtain all the legal rights that comes a long with marriage, however it is a special marriage just for them! I don't see anything wrong with that. I mean.... If two people love each other it shouldn't matter what benefits they receive from being together. They should be together because they want to be... it's that simple! However, since we live in a society that has already established legal rights to marriage, it is not fair to exclude certain people from these rights. Therefore, I believe that if only we came up with a new system or title for homosexual "partnership" this expensive problem could be solved!
Many Americans believe that being a gay is a choice.That this so called lifestyle is picked. I stated my reasons previously why this untrue but we can go even further. Let's look into love itself, regardless of gender. What makes one person fall in love with another person? Is it just based on looks, personality or is it something deeper? There is no scientific reason for it, it just occurs. From my experiences and everyone else I have talked to it is just something that happens, it cannot be controlled.
Some of the greatest love stories are forbidden love. Just look at Romeo and Juliet. They weren't suppose to love each other but they did. We can even discuss Heidi and Spencer from the hills. I wouldn't say personally they have a great love story but that is beyond the point. Heidi loves Spencer, why? I couldn't tell you but everyone she cares about hates the guy yet she is still with him.The main point I'm trying to make is that who you love cannot be predicted, its not a formula.
At the moment there may not be proof that people are born gay but one can also argue that there is no proof people are born straight.Some people may say its nature, we love so we can mate. Yet straight people who can't have kids because of being unfertile still fall in love .Are they going against nature because they can't mate, the same way gay couples can't?
If being gay is choice then I must have picked to like girls when I was in the fourth grade because that was the first time I had a crush on a girl.Back then I didn't know it was such an issue, I thought everyone had these feelings but just no one talked about it. All the girls in my grade thought the same boys were cute so I agreed with them even though I didn't really see the appeal. I had the middle school boyfriends,you know the ones that you date for 2 weeks and maybe hold hands. But i didn't feel anything for them, they were nice but that was it. When I entered high school I fell hard for this girl named Daniela. She was a senior and every time i saw her i got butterflies in my stomach. I would get so nervous talking to her that sometimes i would plan ahead of things to say just so I didn't look like an idiot. Once she graduated, I realized I needed to do something maybe if I had a boyfriend I get over whatever these feelings were.
In the 10th grade I went out this boy named Robert. We went out for 2 months but not once did I feel those butterflies. Not once was I nervous or super excited to see him. Kissing him was ok, i mean it wasn't horrible but I just didn't feel anything emotionally. In the 11th grade I met this girl named Jodeniss. She was the one that made me realize that I was gay and it was ok to be. I came out to her and when I did, through AIM, I cried because I didn't know if my friends would treat me the same. I was scared, I didn't want to have to tell my friends or especially my family. Coming out was hard to do but my friends were great and it didn't change anything between us, if anything it made us closer.But my family still doesn't know, I just don't want them to think of me any differently or be disappointed.
Gay people go through coming out everyday whether it is to a classmate or their mother.When Ellen Degeneres came out, it was huge and so was her wedding to Portia De rossi. When gay marriage was allowed for that short time in California, did anything really change for straight people? I mean were there any reports of heterosexuals deciding to become homosexual just so they can get married to them? Or was it just couples who have been in love for years finally getting that right to marry one another?
http://www.sanfranciscosentinel.com/wp-content/
uploads/2007/08/phyllis-lyon-del-martin-marriage
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That is love right there, 51 years they were together before they got married. I think its ironic when people try to maintain the sacredness of marriage when people like Britney Spears are married for a total of 55 hours. Or when places like drive-thru wedding chapels exist. If you really want to maintain the sacredness of marriage maybe you should start looking into the real issues first.
LOL, Melissa, when did I ask, "When will religions retire?"
I believe that was Sheena.
The time has come for "The Great Presdini" to leave his "2 cents"...lol this is Preston btw...
I will do my best not to offend anyone. It is not my intention to offend anyone I am strictly responding to the comments and expressing my point of view. If I do offend anyone I apologize in advance.
I have always felt that being gay comes from the way you were raised and not your DNA. In order to have a child with dark skin someone in his or her family must have been dark. In order to have a child that is tall, someone in his or her must have been tall; unless of course their is some medical reason that has caused the child to grow freakishly tall or change the color of their skin completely. That is what leaves me clueless as to how somewhere along the line some people turned out gay. I am yet to hear of the gene that is said to cause Gay children. I have a relative that has turned out to be gay. His parents are heterosexual and so are his grandparents and so on. As a child he liked girls, however he lacked the proper lifestyle of a 2 parent home and was raised by his mother whom did not have the greatest outlook on men. Long story short he was not raised with a male figure in his life leaving him to learn everything from a woman, including who to choose as your mate. Of course you can say I don't know who was gay or not way down the family tree but I can say who's to say anyone was and if they were why/how did they reproduce? I think if people were meant to be gay then we would be able to reproduce with the same sex as well as with the opposite sex because I don't think that we were created to discontinue our species. I know we help discontinue it in other ways but I disagree with believing that we were born to do so. Now I can't knock what you believe just as you can't knock me which is why I don't have a problem with people being gay. I also don't have a problem with them getting married. Someone stated, and I think it was Balinda, that how does who you marry affect anyone else; or something along those lines. And she's right. If two gay people get married it has the same affect on me as two heterosexual people getting married or a brother and sister getting married. However now that I mention that does that mean that a brother and sister should be allowed to marry each other because they love each other? I would like to see the pastor that marrys gay couples when he gets to the scripture from the bible that talks about marriage being between a man and a woman though, would he lose anything for going totally against what the bible says? Anyway, gays being married doesn't change my life, I don't agree with it but It is not on my list of top things to worry about because it has nothing to do with me.
One question/analogy though. If people were puzzle pieces and men had the piece with the part that is sticking out and women had the hole in their piece that fits perfectly with the male piece, would the puzzle be the same if some of the male pieces were with other males and females with females? I just think that we were born with our reproductive organs so that they only fit with those of the opposite sex. But I'm just stating my opinion. You gotta live your life the way you want to just as long as it doesn't affect mine.
omg.
Preston has spoken :D
hmm and some good points there by Belinda about drive-thru marriages. How does that really help the sanctity of marriage?
LOL and you gotta give it to Ellen, Portia de Rossi is one pretty woman. Shit, I would love to look like her!!
I do not understand how people can believe that being gay is a choice.
I used to volunteer at an elementary school in Carol City. I used be the assistant to a teacher; I made sure that the students were paying attention and dealt with students who were misbehaving. Now, I bring this up because even though the children I used to monitor children who were around the ages of 5-10 years old... I could already see "homosexual tendencies" in their mannerisms. If I must be specific … I would see little children inappropriately touching other students of the same sex. Now I’m not saying that by simply doing these kinds of activities with other same sex students that they are bound to be gay, rather I am saying that we already see hints of these traits when they are young. Like someone said earlier in these comments, nobody who is gay says that they just decided to be gay. You hear people who are gay, say things along the line of ... “I was just born that way, I never chose to live this way, rather this chose me.”
When it comes to gay marriage I personally do not have anything against it, as long as it does not affect me in any way. I’m all for letting same sex marriages be recognized by the government, so that others can experience the happiness that I wish to one day have. It seems the argument is clearly not letting the definition of marriage change.
I was just discussing this topic earlier about gay marriage with an acquaintance. He carries his Bible everywhere he goes and he never ceases to amaze me with his opinions since he properly explains why he believes in what he believes. He told me that people who are Christian have taken this whole gay marriage situation to a more aggressive level than it needs to be. He tells me of the stories in the Bible that support his argument like Sodom and Gomorrah, etc. even though, to me, a Bible is not enough to convince me of anything. He is obviously against gay marriage since he is Christian, yet he does not mind people being gay. However, if they choose to live a lifestyle of a Christian they need to walk the talk of a Christian. He went on to say that Christians need to be more forgiving and understanding of other lifestyles… or so I remember..lol.
He brought up a good point, not only do religions need to be more understanding with others but everyone else needs to be understanding. Cause no matter what there will always be gay people, gay people are here to stay and they are not leaving.
Compromising always works well.
I believe this to be a civil rights issue, its only a moral issue to the hypocritical and conservative men and women who religiously follow the word of the bible and not the word of God, who cannot look past the interpretations of others (which is what the bible is) and take God's word for what it means. Christians and Catholics alike preach and at times push their religion on others, always faithfully stating that "God loves all his children", and to "treat others like you would want to be treated" but was it not God who said himself "Love thy neighbor as thy self". If you were gay and in love, would you not want to be able to be legally recognized as a married couple and live the way married people do with your significant other and share a wonderful, happy life?
I don't know if homosexuality is genetic but I do believe people are born a certain way. Do you honestly think that if gay person seriously had a choice that they would not choose the easier route; your accepted if your straight, and though we, the human race, generally are becoming more accepting, there is still a stigma against being gay, like there is something wrong with it.
They are human too, they have feelings, the same feelings that any straight person has. They have the ability to love, and they too will bleed if you cut them, and they too are hurt when offended, so when you exclude them and outcast them from the rest of society and tell them that they do not have the right to marry the person they love, the same right that you and I have, they will be angry, and cry, and fight against it, just like any other person would when they find something they whole heartily believe in but are put down for.
I hear from time to time things like "Fuck America, were so fucked up" or "I hate this country" and I cant help but become so saddened and angry, go live somewhere else then, because I don't think people realize the amount of freedom we have and all the opportunities we are given. Yes, there are many issues we as a nation need to sort in order to make this a more efficient, well run country, but that doesn't give anybody the right to basically slap every solider and hard working person in the face who has fought for this country, fought for the freedoms we all have and because of this we need to work even harder to make damn sure that we are living up to the promise we as a nation uphold to all of our citizens: Equal rights and Equal opportunity for all.
Homosexuals are in the same boat that women and Black people were in for many, many years. This is the civil rights movement of our generation -The fight to give gay people the same rights and freedoms as any heterosexual does when it comes to holy matrimony.
Marriage is defined as a union of two people, and we being opinionated people living in a country built around the institutions of religion have defined those two people to be a man and a woman. This may have been fine and dandy back in the repressed days of our country's birth, but we the people are definitely due for mind renovations. To claim that marriage is sacred and holy therefore only for a man and a woman is bullshit because quite frankly the divorce rate is like 50 percent or higher. We have already made a joke out of marriage, we take vows to God and than just like that, get into a rough patch with our significant other and hit splitsville and than proceed to walk down that lovely white aisle another like 5 times til eventually we die. How is that sacred if we consider the bond of love to be nothing more than a piece of paper?
We being straight and always having the legal right of marriage, take it for granted. I think we should chuck the whole thing all together, call it something else and grant everyone the right to it. I feel like 90% of the time, we keep silly, outdated traditions and mindsets just because that's what were used to. Like in the government, there are so many agencies, and groups and laws that are just so out of touch with modern sensibilities but we're afraid of change, afraid of the new so we stick to the old, but its time to break out of handed down from generation to generation close mindedness and seek enlightenment. Equality for all.
There are sooo many problems with the passing of amendment 2 and amendments just like it, like the one in Arkansas. My mother, for example, has talked many times to my sisters and I about possibly becoming a foster parent when we grow up and leave the nest completely. I couldn't find any other way to better children of broken homes than to let them live with a woman as wonderful as my mother. And so many people like her want to help give these children opportunities of normalcy that they never had. But my mother is a single, divorced woman, meaning other single people, just like her, who like in Arkansas are now restricted from becoming a foster parent or adopting a child. My mother brought up 3 children on her own and did an amazing fucking job if i do say so myself. And there are millions of people each day, singly bringing up their children. What determines a great parent is not the fact that they are straight or that they are married, there are countless amounts of unfit, married couples "raising" their children inadequately. No, what makes a good parent is their ability to teach them wrong from right, to instill in them a sense of self worth and a good work ethic, their ability to love and nurture a child and like my mother once told me "When your spending time with your child, it doesn't matter what activity your doing with them, what matters is that you are there."
Hundreds of thousands of gay couples would die for the opportunity we take for granted each day. I can go out, get pregnant with anyone's baby and raise it as my own and I could be the worst mother ever, and the fact that I still have the right to have that child and they do not, is ridiculous, because that situation happens daily. No one can define what exactly makes a great parent, and no one can clearly define that a man and a woman ONLY make great parents.
And its also retarded that so many children are left in foster care and orphanages and treated like shit by the system when the solution is under our noses, because which group is it in our society that naturally cant reproduce children of their own, yes that's right, Gay people. And wouldn't you rather a child know real love from caring parents who will be there for them for the rest of their lives than not know what its like to belong to a family at all. I sure as hell would.
I think what needs to happen is people need to learn acceptance. Its bullshit to say you believe in God and Believe what he stands for and to then turn it around and use Him as the reason to keep two people who love each other, legally unwed. Think about it, back before women had rights, we were repressed, and no one then thought women would ever have the same rights as men, until it happened. And after hundreds and hundreds of years of slavery, I'm sure there were sooo many people, of both color, thinking that black people will never have the same rights as white people, until it happened. And now, with our new president elect being a black man ( technically more Arab than black, but w.e.) we need to jump into the future and leave the old and constricted ways of the past, in the past and fight for Equality.
FREE LOVE FOR ALL!..... LEGALLY!
and like the man who is so cute and hysterical and awesome and who I wish was my father, ahaha, Robin Williams said (though in a movie but, same thing) "You want an amendment against same sex marriage!? Anybody who's been married knows its always the same sex!"
Love it.
I agree with both Belinda and Soraya's comments. Gays, aren't different from anyone of us, so why should they be excluded from their rights according to the Constitution. I think its funny Belinda brought up the fact that everyone tries to keep their child or loved one away from gays, like its a disease, cause its true. Why would it be so bad if someone was gay? What if you were gay, would you want to be treated the way they are now? Its true, gays don't want to be gay by choice, it just happens, like it just happens that you like the opposite sex. Another thing that Belinda brought up was how its hard to be gay, and it really is but people don't normally take that into consideration. If its hard enough to find someone you love and that loves you, imagine for gays, its three times as hard not including the fact that you won't be accepted by society. Society is scared of the unusual, the not normal, but what really is normal? who says being gay isn't normal? Its been around even before Christ. Even in Roman times, it was alright for guys to have sex with guys not because of love but because of pleasure, but why not now? Even then they did it in secret but everyone knew and accepted it, what happened? No one has a good reason as to why gays can't be accepted. Our society needs to evolve, its the 2000's and we're still being closed minded about our own people.
Touchy topic.
Till the end of time, people in this beloved country, will have their noses full of shit from snooping in other peoples business. We live in a society where everyone is observing what color their neighbors are painting their house, or who has the newest car, or the topic of the millennium, who is marrying who.
Today it sadly makes a difference whether you're gay or not. It sadly makes a difference if you prefer to have a spouse that happens to be the same sex as you. Today sadly, someone can't love someone of the same sex. Today someone can't share a life bond written in ink. Today, gays were shafted.
Just because the bible states all the gibberish about man and woman, weren't we raised to NOT take the bible literally. Because if so, I guess I'll sit and wait for the those amazing trumpets and all that bullshit.
Why should anyone care who marrys who? This is a battle that has been going on for quite some time now, and just because there has been some kind of "final verdict", does not mean it is over.
Obama says he wants Change for the better of the country... where is it?
Both articles clearly express favoritism, or shall I say approval of gay and lesbian activities. I have to say that the reason for such acceptance is the time in which we live in. Society today has become so complacent to these people’s beliefs. If you were to approach anyone from an earlier generation, you would probably get a completely different view point. It wasn’t until the late 1970’s or early 1980’s that homosexuals were even mentioned. If you do a little research you would agree that no one ever came “out of the closet” as it was in earlier times. There would be fear of retribution of this lifestyle if it was ever mentioned. Today, everything has become acceptable. All of this is due to liberalism, which I believe, has gone way above and beyond all limits. There are certain laws of society or rather laws of man which should not be broken. The sanctity of marriage, was only considered viable between a man and a woman, and nothing more. There are certain things which I believe God should be in control of. We have taken prayer out of our schools. The pledge of allegiance is no longer allowed to be said every morning. If a parent tries to discipline their children in public, someone may call 911. Respect for any kind of authority, has gone right out the window. Now, the happiest or most joyous of seasons has been dampened by the act that one should not say “Merry Christmas.” I think it is about time that we sit back and reflect on what truly is good for humanity. We are going as far as permitting marriages between gays and lesbians. I believe that such promiscuities can only lead to the demise of mankind. Everyone speaks of equal rights; I’m all for that, but not at the cost of destroying the moral code of humanity. The entire structure of our population can crumble.
You have to understand that in my life, God is the most important thing. Maybe my views may appear to be stern, or unfair. I do feel, however, that in this particular scenario, we should not condone such activities. What two people do in their own private time, should not be questioned. When you inflict these actions upon children, this is where, I feel, nothing good can come from this.
Which two articles are "clearly express favoritism?"
How does being gay/lesbian, mean that person is promiscuous?
How does enabling gay tendencies lead to the demise of humanity?
Maybe you are expressing favoritism, because you are basing your response on beliefs and opinionated facts.
And either way... if your definition of Christianity falls upon superficial and commercialized religious traditions, such as Christmas, then maybe you need to reevaluate your definition of moral codes.
All I want to put out there is.. no one knows if gays/lesbians choose to be or are just born that way. Some claim they are born like that and "straight" individuals (some) assume they are not born like that.. Then we can refer back to the sacred Bible and read how God created a man and a woman. Now lets get to the subject of animals themselves.. can they be gay/lesbian??? Is this possible? As we all know we are a form of mammal that was made to want the opposite sex, along with all the other animals on earth that follow that standard thing called nature... I am not arguing against gays or lesbians, but rather trying to show why people do not believe they are not making the choice of their likes... It is called proof.. what proves a male likes a male and/or a female likes a female...! Then one can argue what proves a male likes a female vice versa, animals is where I get back to... it is not fair that one can not find the cure of cancer, and one can not find the proof of homosexuality... We will one day! I believe! It is all about believing!
I was raised a Catholic. I went to CCD, did my first communion etc. I was always taught to believe that God existed and we would die to go to heaven. When I was ten my best friend's mother died. She and her remaining family converted into presbyterian christian and they changed completely. They took me to their church and I was converted into a "christian" too. I couldn't listen to music, read any Harry Potter books, wear any inappropriate clothes because all these things according to my friend were "devilish" and could get me into hell. I was so young and so scared. I was so naive and believed everything they told me. I became a zombie until my mom noticed.
My mom snapped me out of it and I became myself again. I'm not saying every religion is like this and that religion is bad. But after this I became much more open-minded. In life you have to read between the lines and even in this class we are taught to read literarily, metaphorically. The bible is full of beautiful stories and amazing miracles. But maybe we should take a second to interpret the writings better. If we take a closer look we might see something else. We might see a message of love and peace, not punishing or war.
It makes me sad that with all the techology, advances and discoveries we are still a country that see a gay couple and squirm. I am not gay but when people say that being gay is a choice I just don't believe. Would people really decide something that could make their life miserable and seem as an outsider all the time? Why would someone decide to be this?
I don't want to offend anybody but I truly believe religion has complicated so many thing. Religion should be soemthing that unites people that obviously what it's done is created wars and separated countries.
We should all just stop thinking what is right and what is wrong. The only thing that counts is love. We humans are of mind and soul and if two souls feel a connection towards each who are we and WHO is the government to tell them that cannot share a union of marriage?
There have been really good points made in these blogs. PERUz iLLEST said that "compromise always works well" which is true. We should not just shut out the gays and cut them off completely. I think it is unfair to take away their ability to marry the one person they love. What good comes from this? After skimming through the blogs the majority of people say that they don't care if gays are allowed to get married as long as they aren't affected by it. So there you go. Let them get married because they will still be living there life as though they were married. What's the harm in making it a legal union? I also agree with SPARHAWK. We need to be more accepting. Change takes time which we've seen with womens rights and slavery but it happens eventually. There's no point in trying to stop it. Everyone should be able to express themselves and the love they have for someone. I think if someone truly thinks they have met their soulmate it should not matter who it is. The idea of love has become so corrupt because people get married and do not take it seriously and they turn around and get divorced. If you look at magazines the majority of them are about celebrities and who they are dating and who got married and divorced again. If heterosexuals are able to treat this union as a joke then why not let those who really want to take it seriously do so. I'm not saying everyone gets divorced but it is very common. We need to give equal opportunites to everyone and stop trying to prevent something that will not go away. If everyone follows what they believe and live their life without trying to control anyone else's the world will probably be a happier place.
Everything it’s just so darn complicated! I really don’t know where to start…
I do believe in marriage, and I agree with many comments made.
I do believe that if a child is raised in a gay marriage, these children will see same sex parents and may head the same way because that is how they were brought up. It’s hard to say it, but is reality. If parents are the role models of their lives how the kids will turn out to be?
I know many will say that is not something they’ll teach them, but let’s be honest; don’t we become our parents’ kids?
Doesn’t any one tell you, that you sound just like your parents? Maybe not all, but some will say Yes. And there I include me.
I know I say many things my parents would say. Why? Simply because I heard them and not because my parents told me to memorize everything they say…its just human nature. We grasp what surround us.
I also believe that it must be hurtful for me to even say what I just wrote, but this is how I feel. Although I really admire those who choose to be brave and are who they are, and as I read on another comment, “it’s not over yet.”
Time it’s your ally and mine to do many things. Time to change
And this is why I say it’s complicated because in the end I know we are all humans, with feelings, and it’s hard to really comprehend homosexuals; we can not even comprehend ourselves, and what the world in general needs to change and take a deep look into.
Examples like War, addiction, poverty, assaults, abuse to children, rape, homelessness, abortion, divorce, and so many more.
I agree with both Belinda and Soraya on the issue concering the right to basically have the right to be gay and be able to have the same rights as any straight person. I myself am straight, however I did vote on election day to not pass this Amendment. The moment I informed my parents of what I voted for they immediately stoped and asked me in a very concerned way if I was gay. I was taken back because yes I'm straight but that doesn't mean that I'm automatically against gay rights. I just guess it was hard for my parents to understand because they are the typical Cuban parents who preach religion and how its against the word of the bible to have a union in marriage that isnt with a man and a woman.
So I think that the main reason why some people don't believe in this Amendment isnt because they hate the gay population or don't believe in giving them rights, but because it doesn't follow along with their religion.
My father had told me that he doesnt care if two gay people are inlove, it doesn't affect him and he believes in people doing as they please. He doesnt despise gays or anything of that sort, but he does draw the line when it comes to getting married because thats not what his religion allows him to accept. I believe this is the way many people see this issue. I believe a lot more people today are ok with the idea that a woman can like a woman and a man can like a man. I mean there is a song out there right now about a girl who kissed a girl. The song hasnt't been banned from playing on the radio or has caused an obscene rebellion. So I believe more people today in society are getting used to the fact that a woman can like a woman and a man can like a man.
Most people don't really mind because it doesnt effect them personally. However, when people of a specific religion see gay people getting married then it effects them because of their relgious beliefs. Everyone stands for something, most people stand for their religion and this issue does go against a lot of peoples religion so thats why I think many people voted in favor of this Amendment.
I personally believe gay people should be able to get married because marriage is about love, no matter who its with. But I dont think its fair to say that just because you voted in favor of the Amendment, you don't believe in people being gay or hate gay people. It could just mean that your faith/religion doesn't beleive in gay people getting married. I know a lot of people who think its all fine and dandy to be in love with someone of the same sex but just dont agree that they should be married.
These are only comments on a blog and we can already see how the argument is endless..
We are basically hearing the same things over and over but there are certain points that I feel weren't fully touched (not like I read all of them but speaking generally).
I am pro-civil marriage for gays, I believe that religion is as ignorant as it can be and that it is something we cannot change. It was created to control, to teach morals, and to scare ignorants into fearing hell or creating chaos. We all should know better, but that's too much to ask for. I'm sure there is a higher power but not the way the church portrays him. Bible stories are nice but all childish stories to me. Anyway, this isn't a religious argument but point is that just becasue their bible created Adam and Eve doesn't mean that that is the way that it happened and that the rest of the world should follow through with it. However being recognized by the government as a union, a partnership, and a couple just like any other is crucial. Therefore, for now, gays shouldn't focus on trying to get married by the church because that crowd isn't going to be convinced that God didn't create them to be that way anytime soon. And for any gays that believe in God then i'm sure God will understsand and love you just as much as long as you are fighting for your rights, as well put by Belinda:
" If he really does exist, if he really did "create" me then he created me this way for a reason. Was it to suffer? Possibly, but I think it was to show that we are not monsters or that we have secret agendas at schools. It was to show that we will fight for the same rights as everyone else. The equality of races may have been reached for now but the gay equality is just beginning to fight."
I LIVE to define to meaning of love. It fascinates me, it endulges me and i'm completely fascinated by it's concept. I strongly believe there is no "formula" like someone said, to love. There are specific pheromones and unexplainable things that makes someone attracted to someone else. Let me just put out there i'm a fairly scientific/logic- inclined person. I don't think anyone has the right to say that loving another person is wrong, in fact, i'm even willing to cross the line into disgustingness to say that if for example if a brother and a sister were separated by birth and unknowing of each other's relation they fell in love who are you to say that their love is invalid? Love is unstoppable! whether they get married is disturbingly up to them!. Hopefully they say " maybe we can expand our choice with others a bit more" and if you can maybe kind of sort of accept some part of that in your head, then accepting gays shouldn't be any kind of problem. (If it's still hard maybe you haven't been in love)
Another point that was brought up is the fact that gays do not choose to be gay and I agree. I've read and seen tv programs of gays that have had such a hard life trying to be accepted that they intentionally try to become straight and not once has it worked. For any of the ones that have tried. Furthermore we CAN say that it indeed is genetic in some sense. I used to believe it as a mental disorder of some kind (I'm Really REALLY not trying to be offensive just consider the scientific possibility of it)maybe the nasal function that picks up on pheromones of the opposite sex are misfunctional and pick up on those of the same sex instead. I've read articles like this before and it always impresses me how close we are to fully proving that it is genetical in a way
here is an article form a very reliable website. It includes reaserch fom all over the world, not just the U.S http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080617204459.htm
and also on this same website there are links to everything regarding bisexuality
http://www.sciencedaily.com/articles/b/bisexuality.htm
I believe that it is genetic not only becasue of this but also becasue i'm tired of seeing extremly flamboyant males that refuse to admit they are gay until much later when they can't hold it anymore. Some don't admit it becasue they are afraid that they are, and that they hate it, and that they know they didn't choose it. I had a friend who acted gay since he was very small. it wasn't until after high school that he came out and admitted that he just had had a hard time accepting it but that he had always been gay. How do you explain that? How can that possibly be a choice?
a good argument made by the opposite side was that in all of these states that voted for the amendment it was a majority win, and I agree that democracy comes first but I do not in any sense discourage this fight for their rights. Blacks got their freedom boycotting, being spit on, being beaten and killed, it may not (hopefully not) be this extreme again but it's the only path to go. Realistically speaking it may be a couple of years more before this is half accepted and before they start earning more rights. I say we give it time, tackle it by the side an push for it as much as I can. All of us here that post pro-gay and give their strongest heart felt opinion are already pushing just by speaking their minds. As long as we openly fight for this I think that just like it took all these years to get a black president, we will get all happy gay couples married. =)
I agree with my peers, the laws restrict gays’ rights more and more everyday without taking into consideration they are human beings just like us who have rights. Why can’t a homosexual couple who has lived together for years have the same rights as a heterosexual?
Ever since I was little, I have heard that marriage is a bonding of love, but people have made of it a way to show or more like prove to others they love each other. I think if people love themselves there is no need to be married, that makes no difference on peoples’ feelings. I agree with Belinda when she says that marriage is about love between two people whether they are from the same or different gender.
Meanwhile, I also believe the church will always disagree with same sex relationships which may be ok with them not accepting gay marriage, but that doesn’t mean gay couples shouldn’t get the same benefits as any other.
Sadly, just like Soraya said most people put themselves before the world and cannot live to see someone happy if it affects them in the least. To me gay people should have the right to a legal marriage if it proves anything to them or makes a difference on their feelings. The fact is marriage has lost its worth through the ages. I remember hearing about the old days when marriage was taken seriously and was “till death do us part”, but nowadays anyone can go downtown get married and get a divorce tomorrow if they disagree on what side of the bed to sleep in. We see young people getting married to rebel or leave home without experiencing single life or living together or at least holding a relationship for enough time to know they are ready for such a commitment and the responsibilities a marriage comes with. If getting a divorce today wasn’t so easy maybe people would take it more seriously and I would be as passionate as my peers about everyone having the right to do so, but today that is worthless.
First of all, Soraya'sand Belinda's blog moved me; their writing was so good, I actually read more of their blogs.
I share pretty much the same view as they do, however, one can notice their drive, and feel like some sort of passion towards the subject, or perhaps it is the need or the want to change things, make them better.
Maybe the problem does actually lie in the Constitution, because it says we are all equal, but since the beginning of time, there have always been subdivisions, where inequalities are present, emphasized, and never forgotten. Due to this, Blacks used to be slaves, women lacked rights, and gays and lesbians cannot get married. Obviously the unresolved issue is that of homosexuals being able to legally declare or establish their relationship with their partner, and call it a marriage.
Saying this is not possible because it violates the sanctity of marriage is all a bunch of bs. Seriously, it is unjust to make this the reason same sex marriage is not allowed, because as Soraya wrote, "this is more complex than religion and morality, because taking people's rights away makes this gay thing a civil rights issue." And this is true, gays and lesbians are basically being stripped of their rights just because they like a person with the same reproductive organs as they do. Something needs to be done, should be done, to make same sex marriage something that can be acknowledged in the same way a heterosexual marriage is, in other words, to eliminate the barrier created, and only present if you're gay or lesbian. Because who knows, maybe we'll see how it feels like when something that will affect our rights in the future takes place.
From a previous comment it stated “All men are created equal, and that all men are entitled to the pursuit of happiness”. I honestly agree that everyone should be entitled to their personal happiness, but based on my religious views I still do not agree with the marriage of gays and lesbians or even there relationship. However, it is wrong that as soon as you become gay or a lesbian, it is as though you are also given up some of your rights and equality in this country. I think that the reason that gays and lesbians lose their equality as a human being is because in some people’s opinion and also in my opinion being gay is not the way you are born as someone previously stated in their blog. Being gay or lesbian is a lifestyle that people choose, some people say that they know that they were born gay or lesbian, but to me it is a choice that you make at sometime in your life. You may feel that you are attracted to the same sex, and you start dating your same sex. Another reason that I feel that it is a personal choice to be gay or lesbian, is because you never see a gay or lesbian person or couple in church. Why is that? Do they feel as though they are not followers of Christ because they are gay? Gays or lesbians usually refrain from talking about God or going to church. If you are Christian which most gay and lesbians are not, you know based on your beliefs and what you learn in church and in the bible that that lifestyle is not the right one. In my opinion some people live by the bible and some people live by man. I am one that lives by the bible and even though I believe that everyone should be equal, and have the same rights, I still cannot agree with the marriage of gays and lesbians. Writing this blog I felt like I was having a debate with myself, because I want everyone to be happy and equal but I don’t agree with gays and lesbians. I have friends that are gay and I like them for who they are, but I don’t agree with their lifestyle and their choices. Then there is times when I feel like everyone should be able to make their own decisions and do what they feel. If they want to get married then they should be able to, because who are we to judge. In my opinion we are not the ones to judge, we should leave that to the higher being for judgment day.
the united states is one of the most developed countries around the world not only economically but also social. this country is great, I love it. this is the only country where an african american can be elected as a president. this is the only country where people from third world countries come and can play an important role in politics or be succesful business owner. but these fact does not mean that acts of liberalism as the ammendment 2 should be accepted. As a developed country we must be really careful in what to do, the eyes of the world are upon us. homosexual are not bad people but can be a bad example when the lifes of the next generation are put in their hands. i believe that for the ones that we have to care the most are the kids. they are going to be the future hence we have to offer them the best. as I always say history is the guidance for a better future. and as I state in my previous blog, the families in the 60's or 80's used to live better than the new families. you may say " but this is not related to the subject" but in fact it is. as conservative families, they did not have the amount of trouble that we have righ now. its not only accepting that homosexual can get married and adopt kids. Is accpeting all the consequences that those actions are going to have in the family as a base for the society. to conclude, men are designed naturally to be with a women, and God create them to be together. that is how it was created and that is how it supposed to be forever.
Kia-
You are making a big generalization by saying that gay people do not believe in God. Just because they are gay, doesn't mean they don't believe in religion or a higher being. There is no coherent correlation between the two things.
Also, the reason why there are "no gays and lesbians or homosexual couples" within the Church is not because it doesn't exist among religion, but because it is something that is not accepted.
just wanted to quickly show this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zbpDe_QhS0
please watch whenever possible... =D
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